ConservativeVoice
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Registered: 01/30/09
Posts: 11
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Reply with quote | #1 |
America is a conservative country, the Constitution is a conservative document. The following are clear reasons why this is true. 1.) Personal Liberty The Founding Fathers had an intense fear of an oppressive government that limited individual freedoms. They felt that Britain was attacking their freedom which was the reason for the Revolution. Their belief in individual freedom was the reason that they set up a small and limited federal government. It is only with personal freedom that individuals can reach their full potential. Liberals do not believe in personal liberty. They enact laws that restrict us and interfere with our lives. However, it is clear by our Constitution that our Founding Fathers wanted us free to make our own decisions. 2.) Low Taxes High and oppressive taxes are what led to the American Revolution. Liberals believe in high taxes and Conservatives believe in low taxes. The strong hand of the federal government, which takes excessive amounts of money from us is no different than Britain in the 1700s. 3.) Religion The Founding Fathers believed in a God. This is evident in the Declaration of Independence. Liberals don’t believe in God. They think that they are the Master of the Universe. Conservatives believe in a power greater then themselves. It is with that belief that our country was founded. 4.) Small Government The Constitution gives Congress the Power to declare war, collect taxes, borrow money, provide patents, regulate trade, coin money, raise an army, provide a navy, establish rules of naturalization and bankruptcies and pay the debt. The executive branch has the power of commander in chief, to make treaties, to appoint public officials, and recommend legislation. No were in this document do I see the power for our government to do what it is currently doing. Conservatives believe in a small government with limited powers as written in the Constitution. What do you think? Were we founded on Conservative Principles? Are liberal policies unconstitutional? |
| | gunjunkie
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Registered: 10/22/08
Posts: 24
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Reply with quote | #2 |
Yes. We were founded on all these things.
Yes. These generally represent what we call "Conservative Principles"
Yes. Most of what are called "Liberal Policies" are unconstitutional.
It is important to remember that the United States was largely populated by courageous settlers who risked everything to come here in search of economic opportunity and religious freedom. These were the "do-ers", not the "talkers." Bold, hard-working, self-reliant risk-takers.
In the general population there are relatively few of these. Most people are followers, most want security first, most want to be looked after.
Our original population was not like that. They were filtered from the general population by hardship and risk. Most of the population consisted of the strong and exceptional.
Many of their children, from the same genetic stock, were, not surprisingly, also exceptional. They pushed West seeking their own opportunity. Behind them they left more "civilized", more comfortable, environs whece were inhabited by increasingly less hardy, less self-reliant people. Some of these were later immigrants, some were their own less risk-oriented offspring.
These less-hardy people tend to out-reproduce their hardier brethren and eventually outnumber them. The risk-takers pushed West until they ran out of land. The hoard of the "soft" was only 30 years or less behind them.
(If you think this is wrong, look at a map of RED/BLUE states. Red (conservative) states occupy the vast majority of the land mass. The other 50% of the population crowd together in cities (BLUE - liberal states) where the can try to gain some collective courage and help each other stand or at least hide is a stronger guy's shadow...because they fear to stand alone under an open sky...might get hurt dontcha know.)
Outnumbered and with no where to go they became entrepreneurs and became wealthy.
The hoard of the soft "take-care-of-me" crowd noted that it was not "fair" that the smart, strong, and self-determined became successful. They used their numbers to dictate massive taxation against the successful to take from them what they themselves could not earn.
Today I'm taxed at about 50%...with 2/3 of that going to "the poor."
Yeah, I'm bitter about the liberal nonsense.
We're a far cry from where we were 200 years ago.
gunjunkie
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. |
| | ConservativeVoice
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Registered: 01/30/09
Posts: 11
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Reply with quote | #3 |
This country was built on the belief of hard work and trying to better yourself. If you want to be successful, you have to earn it. It's not going to be given to you and those who feel they are entitled to the earnings of others are shameful. This is America, you are free to make your own decisions. You are free to use your own God given talents to live a comfortable life.
Liberalism promotes laziness. It encourages people to underachieve. Personal responsibility and Liberty are lost.
Conservatism promotes hard work, achievement and responsibility, all of which is what we were founded on.
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| | gunjunkie
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Registered: 10/22/08
Posts: 24
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Reply with quote | #4 |
Yeah, but while we're busy working, the "take-care-of-me" crowd and those who know how to manipulate them are scheming to take our success away.
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Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. |
| | Chan
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Registered: 10/15/08
Posts: 21
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Reply with quote | #5 |
Quote: Originally Posted by ConservativeVoice America is a conservative country, the Constitution is a conservative document. The following are clear reasons why this is true. 1.) Personal Liberty The Founding Fathers had an intense fear of an oppressive government that limited individual freedoms. They felt that Britain was attacking their freedom which was the reason for the Revolution. Their belief in individual freedom was the reason that they set up a small and limited federal government. It is only with personal freedom that individuals can reach their full potential. Liberals do not believe in personal liberty. They enact laws that restrict us and interfere with our lives. However, it is clear by our Constitution that our Founding Fathers wanted us free to make our own decisions. 2.) Low Taxes High and oppressive taxes are what led to the American Revolution. Liberals believe in high taxes and Conservatives believe in low taxes. The strong hand of the federal government, which takes excessive amounts of money from us is no different than Britain in the 1700s. 3.) Religion The Founding Fathers believed in a God. This is evident in the Declaration of Independence. Liberals don’t believe in God. They think that they are the Master of the Universe. Conservatives believe in a power greater then themselves. It is with that belief that our country was founded. 4.) Small Government The Constitution gives Congress the Power to declare war, collect taxes, borrow money, provide patents, regulate trade, coin money, raise an army, provide a navy, establish rules of naturalization and bankruptcies and pay the debt. The executive branch has the power of commander in chief, to make treaties, to appoint public officials, and recommend legislation. No were in this document do I see the power for our government to do what it is currently doing. Conservatives believe in a small government with limited powers as written in the Constitution. What do you think? Were we founded on Conservative Principles? Are liberal policies unconstitutional?
Conservatives believe in legislating morality (telling people what substances they may or may not ingest, etc.) and in trying to impose American will and values on other countries (interventionism).
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"No nation [has] a right to inter-meddle in the internal concerns of another; and that, if this country could, consistent with its engagements, maintain a strict neutrality and thereby preserve peace." - George Washington - |
| | ConservativeVoice
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Registered: 01/30/09
Posts: 11
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Reply with quote | #6 |
Chan, you are right that the principles I have listed are libertarian. However, they are also Conservative. Conservatives do not legislate morality, we simply believe in a set of values. |
| | FeatTheVoices
Freshman Member
Registered: 10/31/08
Posts: 41
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Reply with quote | #7 |
Sadly, and accurately, our founders also knew that these principles were for a moral nation. Since our values in much of the nation have eroded so dramatically is it any wonder that we are in the situation that exists?
We are really no longer a nation interested in the preservation of rights for all equally; but are more concerned with providing everyone the same outcome despite the effort one puts forth. We are no longer concerned with preservation of ones individual liberties, but rather more interested in forcing the minority morality and views upon the majority.
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Ask not what your country can do for you, Ask what YOU can do for your country! |
| | Chan
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Registered: 10/15/08
Posts: 21
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Reply with quote | #8 |
Quote: Originally Posted by ConservativeVoiceChan, you are right that the principles I have listed are libertarian. However, they are also Conservative. Conservatives do not legislate morality, we simply believe in a set of values.
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"No nation [has] a right to inter-meddle in the internal concerns of another; and that, if this country could, consistent with its engagements, maintain a strict neutrality and thereby preserve peace." - George Washington - |
| | McLovin
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Registered: 05/27/09
Posts: 4
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Reply with quote | #9 |
1) I generally agree with the broad concepts. However when you have a society in which certain groups have people have prospered, sometimes for centuries, at the expense of other groups, perhaps a societal effort at least to offer some sort of equal opportunity for success might be in order? 2) You seem to be missing the idea behind a representative Democracy. We have this Constitution (and various forms of municiple government underneath it) which allows us to elect representatives to pass laws which benefit us as a community. This is what we create societies for! "Liberty" means that you can do whatever you want. REASONABLE Liberty means you can do whatever you want, right up to where it affects me. So no, you don't have the right to blow smoke into the air that I breathe when we are both in a public place. Also implicit in that representative government that we set up is the fact that we pass laws, as a society, that we believe will benefit us as a society. So yes, we have decided that it is in society's best interest that ALL children be educated. We have decided that it is in our society's best interest that those who choose to contribute to escalating health costs through cancer-causing smoking should get to pay more to ameliorate those costs. If you drive cars that pollute more, you get to pay more to handle that pollution. We elected a Representative Democracy in order to pass laws which keep your liberties to do the above things from infringing on the liberties of my pocketbook. 3) You could not be more wrong. The 1st Amendment makes it more than clear that we should not have Religion within 10 miles of any Governmental institution, and vice versa. Here, I'll break it down for you: Congress (our legislative body, and all legislative bodies, as applied by the 14th Amendment) shall make no law respecting (having to do with) an institution (any existing framework) of religion. So to summarize: Our Legislative bodies shall make no law having to do with any existing framework of religion You argue that we are a "Christian" nation. We may be a nation with a lot of Christian people in it (that claim being somewhat dubious when applied to many people), but that in no way assumes that we should have any sort of religious bearing on our public administration. Indeed, as shown above, we are specifically intended NOT to have religion impinge upon public policy and practice. Now this is not to say that religious values and sound governing principle do not (or should not) intersect at many different places. It is to say that expressly religious ideals and practices should absolutely NOT be incorporated into what we do as a societal unit. And yes, this includes public subsidy and land use: budgets and appropriations do have the force of law behind them. And yeah, "In God We Trust" and "One Nation Under God" (which incidentally wasn't added to the Pledge until the 1950's) may be toeing that line a little close. But in reality, how many people do you personally know that really are worried about getting rid of those? Just like I know there are SOME people out there who would like to legislate that EVERYONE has to carry a gun, or want to bring back "separate but equal" but at the same time I know that these people are fringe and not really any serious part of our discourse. This includes President Obama. Again, he is a Christian, and he also understands that purely "Christian" values have no place in public discourse. Only when those values intersect with sound governing principle should they be put in place. 4) Sure, I can agree to that. I do believe in some sort of social net...such as limited Unemployment Benefits, Social Security, medical care for those unable to afford it. But I've got no problem with adhering to a principle of hard work. My question to you is, how are you going to instill that pride in large parts of a society that has lost it?
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The Devil says, "You can pay me now or you can pay me later." |
| | McLovin
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Registered: 05/27/09
Posts: 4
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Reply with quote | #10 |
1) Let me first take issue with this: Your characterization of "Liberals" is completely untrue. I'll count myself as a "Liberal." I believe in personal liberty. I define that "personal liberty" as you do what you want up to the point where what you're doing affects me. Our Constitution sets up government so that we, as a group, can define that line where your liberty is infringing upon mine and ours. You may not like where that line is drawn, but indeed that is why we have the government that we have. 2) I don't believe in high taxes. I believe in taxes that are necessary to keep and run an orderly society based upon our Constitution. We can argue (and probably agree in more than a couple of places) about what taxes are and how they are spent, but I have no desire for you or me to pay more in taxes than is necessary. 3) How dare you question my belief and devotion to God? I believe in God and try to live by His principles. You are absolutely no one to judge how successful I am or am not at that, or indeed if I do at all. To make a blanket statement/judgment like that is to expose yourself as an ignorant bigot. 4)The Constitution is set up to allow a flexible Government to handle whatever comes its way. Those who wrote it were smart enough to realize that problems they could never conceive would arise and so created a Constitution that outlined a Government that could handle those situations. They had no concept of a society where over half of people lived in large cities, where you could travel coast to coast in a matter of hours, indeed even a society with 5 million, let alone 300 million people. My point being, when they created our Constitution, they left room for a Government as small as they really needed back then, or as large as we need right now. It's a matter of degrees. Also, let me correct you: those who fought the revolution did NOT do so as a protestation of taxes. You've mentioned the Declaration of Independence a few times: it is the document which explains WHY we felt the need to break away from Britain. Without looking, can you tell me how many times taxes are mentioned in that document? ....... ....... ....... The answer is one time. The complaint is (and I"m sure you've heard the line before) "taxation without representation." We dont' have that here. We duly elect our representatives, who then set our taxes. The Revolution was NOT based on a tax revolt; it was ignited by a lack of proper representation and an utter lack of due process. Those ideals are embodied in our Constitution, and no matter how bloated our government has gotten, we still have elections for our representatives, and we have both a court system and our 1st Amendment to guarantee our due process. To claim that our government "is no different than Britain in the 1700s" belies a gross misunderstanding both of history and our current government.Don't forget: the word "liberal" derives for the word "liberty." Those who fought the American Revolution and created our Constitution were not conservative. Indeed, they were quite radical. Guaranteed and inalienable rights, a repudiation of aristocracy, a governmental structure wholly answerable to the general populace: at the time these ideals were nothing short of the left fringe of political and social thought. At the time Britain (and indeed most of the Western World) was still dealing with absolute Monarchs, an elite class that guaranteed itself elevated class, and uneasy contracts that SOMETIMES granted some sort of due process (e.g. the Magna Carta). It was entirely new ground, certainly not "conservative" by any means.
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The Devil says, "You can pay me now or you can pay me later." |
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